1.
Apr 12, 2012 9:31 PM
in response to: MoreGore
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Are you seriously quoting a "World Bank" report and expecting anything other than a Pro-Capitalist view? It has led millions of people to great things, it has also led tens of millions to Skid row conditions...
4,506 posts since
Sep 21, 2009
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2.
Apr 12, 2012 10:15 PM
in response to: dc013
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
dc013 wrote: Are you seriously quoting a "World Bank" report and expecting anything other than a Pro-Capitalist view? It has led millions of people to great things, it has also led tens of millions to Skid row conditions... So they are lying, and people are actually worse off than 30 years ago? Prove it. I mean really come up with the numbers to prove that the emerging economies are actually faking it. I dare ya.
9,691 posts since
Jul 9, 2010
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3.
Apr 12, 2012 10:26 PM
in response to: MoreGore
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Bill Easterly dared to speak out about what was wrong with the World Bank. Soon he may be looking for a job.
World Bank's bad boy
Dyan Machan, 11.26.01
William Easterly, 44, is one of the World Bank's most respected economists and for now the senior adviser in its development group. Perhaps it was insensitive to ask him, as we dined with him in Manhattan, about his possibly leaving his 16-year job under the cloud of "a disciplinary review." The bank is unhappy that Easterly wrote a newspaper article without its permission.
The bank's unhappiness may also arise from his book, The Elusive Quest for Growth, which skewers World Bank policies. In it Easterly definitively states for the first time that there is no correlation between the trillions of dollars spent on aid since the 1960s and economic growth.
It probably hasn't helped his career that Easterly says that the World Bank's call for more aid after the Sept. 11 attacks, to avert the deaths of tens of thousands of children, isn't based on good economic science. The bank's estimate of the potential number of dead children is an extrapolation of how GDP growth will slow in the short term, which is impossible to predict, he says.
One might have expected that Easterly would end up studying the developing world. As he tells it, his father, a botany professor, took his family to live in Ghana in 1969. When the family returned, education continued for the young Easterly around the dinner table in Bowling Green, Ohio, where guests included graduate students from around the world. Easterly eventually earned a Ph.D. from MIT.
Easterly's research discredits many of the policies championed by James Wolfensohn, the bank's president, which have long driven the billions in zero-interest loans to the developing world. One is known as capital fundamentalism, which he disparages as the "build-it-and-they-will-come" approach. The rationale is that poor countries need just machines and bridges and dams to grow. The result of this $28 trillion infrastructure windfall from 1968–90? No GDP improvement.
"Machines [or bridges or dams] are not inherently productive," explains Easterly. He recalls a 1980 World Bank project to build a shoe factory in tropical Tanzania. An aluminum building was built with no ventilation. In its best year the factory never got past 4% of capacity. By 1990 it was dust.
Educational funding is another popular sinkhole into which the World Bank and developed nations have poured more than $30 billion since 1963.
Look at the data: From 1960 to 1985 Africa expanded education more rapidly than East Asia did. Yet the Asian Tigers began to charge while sub-Saharan Africa continued to crawl. Why? In the developing world teaching positions are often given away to political cronies, who may have no incentive to teach, he says.
Since poor government policies were a recurring theme, a new, improved loan policy was devised: We'll lend you money, but you will have to change your ways. This carrot-and-stick approach was the driving force behind $566 billion in lending from 1980 through 1999. We know the outcome, but what was the problem? Plenty of carrots but no stick.
In Mexico's financial crisis in 1994–95, World Bank officials insisted that its banks improve their inadequate deposit insurance rules. The response: "No." The World Bank response: "Sorry. Would you write us a report then?"
4,506 posts since
Sep 21, 2009
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4.
Apr 12, 2012 10:31 PM
in response to: welcomeToTheMachine
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Cool story bro. Now answer the question.
4,506 posts since
Nov 12, 2011
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5.
Apr 12, 2012 10:42 PM
in response to: MoreGore
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Cost of living rising vs. lowering salaries?
9,691 posts since
Jul 9, 2010
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6.
Apr 12, 2012 10:44 PM
in response to: Odin
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Odin wrote: Cost of living rising vs. lowering salaries? Credit Cards are booming.
12,122 posts since
Oct 17, 2009
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7.
Apr 12, 2012 10:49 PM
in response to: MoreGore
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Impressive. How did we do versus the control group?
1,129 posts since
Nov 21, 2010
Currently Being Moderated
8.
Apr 12, 2012 10:53 PM
in response to: Miltonred
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Miltonred wrote: Impressive. How did we do versus the control group? Milton wins the thread.
12,098 posts since
Sep 21, 2009
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9.
Apr 12, 2012 11:19 PM
in response to: MojoPin87
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Cancer is very good for weight loss, I hear.
13,409 posts since
Sep 21, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
10.
Apr 12, 2012 11:36 PM
in response to: MoreGore
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Clearly. Free market capitalism under a socially democratic state where government spending represents approximately 30% of the GDP is the best model for economic growth we've found so far. I'm more interested in the notion of socialism as a transitory phase in economic evolution. Heck, two of the countries the piece cited used socialism as a transitory phase, which kind of undercuts the premise.
10,571 posts since
Sep 21, 2009
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11.
Apr 13, 2012 9:34 AM
in response to: MoreGore
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
1. Miltonred is absolutely right. No control group equals meaningless assertion. the percentage of people living on less than $1.25 per day—or its local equivalent—has plummeted from 52 percent of the global population in 1981 to 22 percent in 2008 2. The above statement appears to be the entire basis of the claim. According to this handy inflation calculator, $1.25 in 1980 is equivalent to $3.48 in 2012. What percentage are currently living under $3.48/day? Does moving to $3.49/day end a person's poverty? 3. What the heck, let's call it $5/day. Is this anything to be bragging on?
4,802 posts since
Nov 13, 2009
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12.
Apr 13, 2012 12:01 PM
in response to: HockeyHippy
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
Clearly. Free market capitalism under a socially democratic state where government spending represents approximately 30% of the GDP is the best model for economic growth we've found so far. I believe the US is at about 40%. I'm not challenging your statement but trying to understand your premise. Also, sovereign debt are demographics will be playing a significant role in calibrating that balance. I understand the Germany is proposing a tax on its young people to fund its generous social programs... Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats have drafted proposals forcing all those over the age of 25 to pay a proportion of their income to cushion Germany against a looming population crisis. The German Chancellor's ruling party is seeking extra sources of cash to pay for soaring pensions and bills for social care costs at a time when Germany's "baby boomer" generation is ageing amid a decline in the birth rate. The proposals – to be adopted by Chancellor Merkel's party cabinet after the Easter break – have not yet set a figure on the age tax but officials are considering a special levy of about one per cent of income. A slump in Germany's population means that as more and more ageing Germans retire there are less and less young workers to replace them as taxpayers to fund generous welfare and pension arrangements.
13,409 posts since
Sep 21, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
13.
Apr 13, 2012 12:12 PM
in response to: hobeydog
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
hobeydog wrote: Clearly. Free market capitalism under a socially democratic state where government spending represents approximately 30% of the GDP is the best model for economic growth we've found so far. I believe the US is at about 40%. I'm not challenging your statement but trying to understand your premise. Also, sovereign debt are demographics will be playing a significant role in calibrating that balance. I understand the Germany is proposing a tax on its young people to fund its generous social programs... Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats have drafted proposals forcing all those over the age of 25 to pay a proportion of their income to cushion Germany against a looming population crisis. The German Chancellor's ruling party is seeking extra sources of cash to pay for soaring pensions and bills for social care costs at a time when Germany's "baby boomer" generation is ageing amid a decline in the birth rate. The proposals – to be adopted by Chancellor Merkel's party cabinet after the Easter break – have not yet set a figure on the age tax but officials are considering a special levy of about one per cent of income. A slump in Germany's population means that as more and more ageing Germans retire there are less and less young workers to replace them as taxpayers to fund generous welfare and pension arrangements. hobey - I actually meant to hit 40%. Fat fingers and all. That seems to be the sweet spot, where countries like the US, Canada and Norway sit - provides a reasonable balance between the free market and government spending. Much higher, and government starts to get too expensive and unwieldly. Much less, and you start to lose the government services you need to run a modern economy.
15,303 posts since
Sep 18, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
14.
Apr 13, 2012 12:14 PM
in response to: MoreGore
Re: Helping the Poor? Capitalism works best!
MoreGore wrote: dc013 wrote: Are you seriously quoting a "World Bank" report and expecting anything other than a Pro-Capitalist view? It has led millions of people to great things, it has also led tens of millions to Skid row conditions... So they are lying, and people are actually worse off than 30 years ago? Prove it. I mean really come up with the numbers to prove that the emerging economies are actually faking it. I dare ya. Doesn't look like I have to prove anything. Other, smarter people have this info readily available. I simply base my opinions on what the US and Canada are like... growing gaps between wealth and poverty (most in the poverty camp), inflation (value of our dollar is ridiculously low), I mean, prove it? How about take a look around, it's all there for you to see. Do I have a viable option? No, I don't, but this devil I know... is pretty dang bad.
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